Continuing today with clearing up a misunderstanding that has become orthodoxy and in doing we are able to better see the point in the previous message that our resurrection from death comes in a flesh body by an awakened mind.
In one of the comments to the prior post someone made the point that the soul doesn’t sleep, and goes from death in this life to conscious presence with the LORD. He used 2 Corinthians 5 where Paul ponders His straight between to be “absent” from the body and present with the LORD, or remain in where he was. This passage has come to be thought of as speaking of physical death, rather than as it should be understood in the context of the prior chapter’s ending, and the ending of chapter 5 when it tells of our being reconciled to the LORD. Paul is speaking of his weak flesh not wanting to stay with those in the stupor of not understanding, and longing to be in peace among those alive with an awakened mind such as his.
2 Corinthians 4 tells of our being deliver into death as was the LORD (into the hands those in the sleep like stupor of not understanding and confusion,) and verse 14 says, “Knowing that he which raised up the LORD Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.” It is telling of our accepting the cost of delivering the message (of reconciliation to God) and once it has been received by the hearer, they are not only reconciled to God, but now joined together with the messenger in the great crowd of witnesses spoken of in Hebrews 12:1.
It speaks of the one preaching seen as if resurrected before their eyes, once they are enlightened by the word spoken, the teacher then being understood by the previously ignorant crowd as being alive, even well before being understood as such.
This is the context in which chapter 5 speaks. The words used to tell of being in the body and out of the body tell of being apart from the earthly corrupted crowd (its corrupted thinking – their confused and degenerate ideas,) and being absent from this body is to in the crowd the LORD is in, with Him. The words here translated “absent” and “present” are both only used three times each and all here in these few verses of chapter 5. They are the Greek words ekdemeo and endemeo, meaning in and out of the crowd, from demos, meaning the crowd, from deo meaning to be bound together.
To be in this body bound together in the corrupted thinking of the crowd, is being out of the LORD’s crowd, not bound together with Him in heaven. We know from our study heaven is the firmament where the waters are divide above and below, this telling of rightly dividing the word being heaven, as the peace producing waters/word from above is separated from the waters below that bring a confused and void earth.
We also read of when this opposite is true and we become part of the LORD’s crowd, Paul and Timothy telling us specifically, it is not that we remove our earthly flesh clothing but rather that it is clothed over. (2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.)
We know this pattern as that in the Genesis creation record, and telling us of this rightly dividing the word coming after light enters the darkness, after the Spirit has moved on the face of the waters of the deep.
This is why Ephesians 5:14 says, “Wherefore he says, Awake you that sleeps, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.” This is very loosely quoting from Isaiah 60:1.
I am pasting all these chapters below and ask you to read them all in this light, and rise from sleep and be awakened, come out of the corrupted crowd, and be reconciled with the LORD, joining us in peace, understanding this mystery in His crowd in heaven.
1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the LORD, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the LORD shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the LORD himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with the LORD.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Ephesians 5
1 Be you therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us, and has given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savor.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becomes saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not you therefore partakers with them.
8 For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the LORD: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the LORD.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he says, Awake you that sleep, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.
15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be you not unwise, but understanding what the will of the LORD is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the LORD;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our LORD Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the LORD.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the LORD the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
Isaiah 60
1 Arise, shine; for your light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon you, and his glory shall be seen upon you.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.
4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to you: your sons shall come from far, and your daughters shall be nursed at your side.
5 Then you shall see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto you, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto you.
6 The multitude of camels shall cover you, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.
7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto you, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto you: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring your sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD your God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he has glorified you.
10 And the sons of strangers shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister unto you: for in my wrath I smote you, but in my favor have I had mercy on you.
11 Therefore your gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto you the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto you, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14 The sons also of them that afflicted you shall come bending unto you; and all they that despised you shall bow themselves down at the soles of your feet; and they shall call you; The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 Whereas you have been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through you, I will make you an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
16 You shall also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shall suck the breast of kings: and you shall know that I the LORD am your Savior and your Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make your officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in your land, wasting nor destruction within your borders; but you shall call your walls Salvation, and your gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more your light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto you: but the LORD shall be unto you an everlasting light, and your God your glory.
20 Your sun shall no more go down; neither shall your moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of your mourning shall be ended.
21 Your people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
2 Corinthians 4
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the LORD; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the LORD Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death works in us, but life in you.
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
14 Knowing that he which raised up the LORD Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, works for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that has wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also has given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the LORD:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the LORD.
9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that you may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constrains us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be you reconciled to God.
21 For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
